Discrepancies

At times there are discrepancies regarding events in Valdemar. These discrepancies do not matter. They are only flagged and collected for reference.

Discrepancies are minor differences and the stories are just as enjoyable. They can be regarded as errors by the characters speaking, or by the blurring of history.

There may be differences inadvertently introduced in short stories by anthology authors. The canon novels by Mercedes Lackey always supersede the stories. Or changes by Lackey may also be a literary device.

This page is not in a Category in order to keep it private among wiki staff.

Need's survival during the Cataclysm

• In Storm Breaking chapter 4 (and possibly Winds of Fate?), Need said that she survived the Cataclysm "in a shielded casket in a shielded shrine in the heart of a triply-shielded Temple to Bestet, the Battle-Goddess." After which all the shields were gone, and Need herself felt as if she had "been drained to the dregs." When she recovered years later, she was miffed to discover that she had been stored in the Armory.
• In "Woman's Need Calls Me" (in the Choices Anthology), a story written by Mercedes Lackey herself, Need's bearer for four decades (both before and after the Cataclysm) was a low level mage in Urtho's army, Melysatra. Together they survived the Cataclysm by jumping through a Gate, and managed to survive the wilderness and the Mage Storms. Later, when Need transformed a desperate woman trapped in a man's body, it took a great deal out of her and she went to sleep.

Theories: Need may have found it more amusing to say how much she was revered before the Cataclysm, rather than tell of the important but not world-changing adventures she had during those struggling times. Or she may have felt that Pol's story was not hers to tell. Or gender dysphoria is not treatable by the Healers, only by a catastrophic amount of magic and weakening the powerful mage Need, so repeating the story would be unkind to those who suffer it. Or the second story may be a fantasy, where Need felt useful rather than forgotten.

Found a third reason in a novel! When Elspeth mentions something that Need has not explained:

"The blade may not have wanted you to know why," Tre'valen said smoothly. "Certainly, if you contradicted her will, she would not be so free with revealing secrets."

Beyond

For Want of a Nail

Rosemary Edghill and Denise McCune's story "For Want of a Nail" brought us an interesting peek at the Founding, back in 2009 when Mercedes was still quite sure that she wouldn't be writing about it. We can thank Betsy Wollheim for Beyond, according to the dedication! Note anything that the latest book from Mercedes Lackey's always supersedes anything previous invluding the anthology short stories, if there is a conflict. Multiple tidbits in For Want of a Nail were overridden by canon.

Over-ridden:

• There is no disloyal eldest son Dethwyn left behind at the Emperor's Court. In fact, SPOILER, there's no Emperor's Court left behind at all, lol.
• Beltran was not a seneschal when they were in the Eastern Empire, nor had his family served as such for generations. He was a Herald, in the traditional sense, for the Dukes of Valdemar. Also, his first name is not Juuso.
• The Emperor and capital city are unnamed in the The Founding of Valdemar trilogy

Beyond: Isla and Idor's birth

• In chapter (2?) of Beyond, Delia says that Isla is 12 years older, and went to foster a year after Delia's birth, age 13. She also says that Idor is a year older than Isla.
• In chapter (5?), Kordas says that Idor and Isla are twins.

Considering how much younger Delia is, we can assume that she is confused. Kordas knew both Idor and Isla personally (in fact is the same age as Isla, and thus Idor) so his version is more likely.

Ivar and Kordas' relative age

When Ivar is introduced in Chapter 6, he is mentioned as both older and younger than Kordas:

"tough, strong, smart, and with a seriously itchy foot, just a little older than Kordas, an able fighter, and a trained woodsman."

A few pages later, as they are riding back to the manor, Kordas was "becoming more and more comfortable with the younger man with every exchange."

I think of Kordas as being a mature man, with three children, but I guess he may be as young as thirty if Isla had their first child right away when they were married at 18. I pictured Ivar as in his mid-twenties. Really not that far apart? Gah.

Another inconsistency regarding Ivan is the colour of his hair, described first in chapter six as brown like his eyes and skin and later in chapter eight as unruly and blond.

Beyond: Fetching

Incorrectly regarded as a discrepancy

In Beyond, Delia frostily advises Jonaton that a living being cannot be Fetched without turning it inside out or otherwise killing it. However, in chapter 1 she used her gift to help turn a foal in the womb. This is actually addressed explicitly in the limitations of Fetching. Dirk unearthed a new aspect. It is *possible* to move a living being short distances from the Fetcher's hands to another place, but bringing one to the Fetcher over long distances is much riskier and requires an extremely strong Gift.

King Randale's Seneschal

Joshel is listed as Seneschal, with Tantras as Seneschal's Herald in Magic's Price, Chapter 1. However, in Chapter 6 and throughout the rest of the book, the Seneschal's Herald is Joshel, with Arved as the Seneschal. It appears to be an error from an earlier draft that wasn't caught in editing. Due to the consistency of Arved as Seneschal throughout the rest of the book, there is general agreement that he should be the one listed, not Joshel.

Counterpoint: possible explanation

It's explicit that Seneschal's Herald Tantras and Seneschal Joshel were not doing well and they were unhappy. Van says, "Less than a year in the office, and [Joshel is] trying to do the work of twenty. And wishing with all his soul he was back as somebody’s assistant. And unfortunately, Tran knows less about the position than he does." Yfandes adds, ":He's not comfortable as Seneschal.:" What if Tantras was moved to other duties, Joshel moved to Seneschal's Herald, and Arved was given the Seneschal job? It is more consistent with other books for the Seneschal to be a civilian. Additionally, maybe Joshe was Chosen while he was Seneschal, and that made him ineligible to continue, so they moved him to Seneschal's Herald.

Explanations for discontinuity are called the "No prize," and it's my favorite thing.

King Megrarthon and Karathanelan's deaths

• In Arrows of the Queen chapter 8, the timing of King Megrarthon's death is slightly unclear and could be either of the below. When Karathanelan was killed: "their King had since died."
• In By the Sword chapter 10, Karathanelan's treachery is said to have caused his father Megrarthon's death.
• In Exile's Valor, Chapter 19, King Megrarthon was said to have died while Karathanelan was alive in Valdemar, when he had a fight with Selenay. "the next day, the very next day, word came from Rethwellan that his father, the King, was dead."

Regardless of the order of events, upon Megrarthon's death Faramentha became King of Rethwellan, wouldn't want Karathanelan back, and was in no way disconcerted by his death. And most importantly, Lackey has advised that the most recent publication should be regarded as canon, overriding anything earlier. So Exile's Valor overrules the other two.

Red robes and Black robes

THIS LIST IS INCOMPLETE, just collecting these as I ran across them to see which is usual for the two types of Karse Sunpriests. All works have NOT been checked. Lackey's first use, red, for a demon-summoning priest mage, was in "Stolen Silver," which appeared in a non-Valdemar anthology. Stories since then may identify red robes with demon-summoners and black robes for ordinary parish priests. But sometimes it's the opposite. By the Sword has not been checked. But after that, Lackey's first two uses in the Winds and Storms *novels* were black for demon-summoners. Then red for the next 3 novels, then falling back to black in Redoubt in 2012, and red in "Boundaries." Anthology authors have followed either example, lol, but remain consistent.

VOICE/demon summoner vs parish

Voice/demon	parish	author	year	story
red	black	Mercedes Lackey	(1991)	"Stolen Silver"
red	black	Mercedes Lackey	(2002)	Take a Thief, Chapter 8
red	black	Mercedes Lackey	(2003)	Exile's Honor (confirmed in prologue separately)
red	black	Rosemary Edghill and Denise McCune	(2010)	"In Burning Zones We Build Against the Sun"
red	black	Mercedes Lackey	(2011)	Changes ch 14
red	black	Rosemary Edghill and Denise McCune	(2014)	"A Brand from the Burning"
red	black	Rosemary Edghill and Denise McCune	(2016)	"Harmless as Serpents"
red	black	Rebecca Fox	(2017)	"Ordinary Miracles"
black	red	Mercedes Lackey	(1993)	Winds of Fury, Chapter 14
black	red	Mercedes Lackey	(1994)	Storm Warning, Chapter 5
black	red	Ben Ohlander	(1997)	"Vkandis' Own" (Solaris)
black	red	Ben Ohlander	(2005)	"Strength and Honor"
black	red	Mercedes Lackey	(2012)	Redoubt
(needs to be checked)	(needs to be checked)	Kristin Schwengel	(2018) and (2021)	"Of Crows and Karsites" and "A Time for Prayer" (prequel) in the Herald Rinton Miniseries
red	black	Mercedes Lackey	(2021)	"Boundaries (short story) in Boundaries
(needs to be checked)	(needs to be checked)	Mercedes Lackey	(1991)	By the Sword

I added the Herald Rinton miniseries from memory, and BTS, but did not re-read them for robe colors. There are 19+ in the Category:Karse stories which could be checked and added, such as Dylan Birtolo's Dawn of a New Age and Suffering Knows No Borders, Louisa Swann's Foreseer Riann Miniseries, Nancy Asire's standalones, and others, but they don't actually count. Mercedes outweighs the other authors, but even within her own 5-book The Collegium Chronicles series she used both.

Gryphon/Tayledras time since the Mage Wars

In the "Under the Vale (essay)" (in the eponymous anthology, volume 7), the Tayledras are said to have been working for a "millenium" on taming the wild magic of the Pelagirs. But a millennium ago was a few centuries after the Founding of Valdemar. The original Mage Storms occurred two-plus millennia ago, around a thousand years before the Founding.

The story "Ripples and Cracks" (in the Tempest anthology, volume 10) the same offset occurs. Darian says the Cataclysm was "eleven hundred some years ago." Again, that's the time between the Mage Wars and the Founding; the time from the present (under Queen Selenay) to the Founding is another 1400 years.

Aaaand of course that carried over into the Kelvren's Saga saga.

Elcarth

Elcarth says that Alberich was his yearmate. But Elcarth was already a Herald when he taught history to Alberich. The biggest reason for this discrepancy is most likely that Alberich's book was written over 15 years after the first book, and Valdemar's timeline is always a little blurry (thus the effort we are putting into it, lol.)

Elcarth's age is a fundamental date anchor, as he admits under Truth Spell in Talia's third year that he is 57 years old.

The Calculations and assumptions for the ages of Elspeth, Talia and Alberich page addresses all of the manipulations etc to work out the timeline as best as possible. When Alberich arrived in Valdemar in 1372 (year one of the four years of the Tedrel Wars, which ended in 1376 with Sendar's death), Alberich is probably 28 years old, or younger. Elcarth turned 57 in 1389, and was thus 40 years old in the first year of the Tedrel Wars. So he's twelve years older than Alberich, and, more significantly, had already been a Herald for 17 years as he got his Whites at age 23.

Theory: It could be proposed that Elcarth said "yearmate" because they were adults when they met, and almost peers. Alberich was appointed as Weaponsmaster's Second right away; he was an experienced officer and had received an extensive education at military school. He probably just needed to learn about Valdemar's culture, history and laws. Elcarth tutored him in History because it wouldn't have been suitable for him to sit in classrooms with the Trainees.

Ancar's birth

This one is discussed on a separate page somewhere. Basically in Arrow's Fall, Ancar had been a menace for over 21 years. This was overridden by a throwaway line in Exile's Valor, which mentions the birth of a Hardorn Crown Prince the previous year. This makes him 16 in Arrow's Fall.

Resolved: Talia and Elspeth age difference

RESOLVED with MerlynPrime: When Talia comes to Haven, she is thirteen and says that Elspeth LOOKS to be seven (it doesn't say that she IS seven, which would be a six year difference.) So, she is 8 and Talia is 13, a 5 year difference, and when Elspeth is chosen, Talia is 18 and Elspeth is 13, also a five year difference. (Arrows of the Queen) For details about ages, see Calculations and assumptions for the ages of Elspeth, Talia and Alberich.

Skif's childhood

In Winds of Change, Skif explains to Wintermoon that his mother raised him to be a thief before she was murdered by a competitor. Elspeth mentioned the same story in Winds of Fate. In Take a Thief, Skif's mother was not a thief, and he did not become one until years after her death, when he joined Bazie's gang. File this one under artistic license - the most recent publication always takes precedence.

Lady Cera Miniseries

Some names are slightly different in different episodes. At least three variations of Withen (Withrin is one) are particularly painful examples. It is unclear whether these are typos/scannos from the ebook versions, or if the change happened further up the line.

Herald Syrriah Miniseries

There are issues with the timeline. Some of the minor characters appearing in the stories are clearly people from the reigns of Queen Elspeth the Peacemaker and King Randale, including Kayla, the Weaponsmaster who trained Herald-Mage Vanyel. Further supporting this placement within the chronology are the stories in which Herald Syrriah is either a trainee being mentored by a senior Herald, or is her self a senior Herald mentoring a trainee. This was the training system before Heralds' Collegium was built during the later reign of King Kiril.

However, there are also several stories in which Syrriah is clearly at the Heralds' Collegium. These stories appear to have been set in the reign of Queen Selenay, hundreds of years later.

note

(Edited) Holy COW no wonder you were annoyed with this series. My findings agree with yours. I made notes on the two offending stories (Kirball AND Andrel and Kayla all together?!! and then Elcarth?!!) and put a discussion on the Miniseries page. I'm treating the internships (junior/senior) as transparent to modern day, given no other clues about them. It's the collegium stories that are truly messed up. Hunh. I guess now that I'm saying that out loud they could all be modern day except the field day one. I could forgive the names, but not kirball, lol. Anyways ... they won't be going on the chrono books expanded edition page heh. I filled out most but not all of the stories, and her character page.

New note: contact author?

Several author websites I've checked in the past have no contact method (Louisa Swann, Dylan Birtolo, Shaver, etc.) I never checked Dermatis: hers does, lol. I want to contact her but would definitely need help composing something diplomatic. "Choose a time and stick to it!" isn't exactly constructive, lol. Basically my question for *any* author boils down to a simple, "did you have a time in mind, if you did, we would like to have it for the wiki."

Geographical errors

In Arrows of the Queen Chapter 3, Talia leaves Kettlesmith and encounters Dirk that same day, on the road just outside town. Dirk tells her she will reach Haven by nightfall. But on the map, Kettlesmith is almost halfway between Sweetsprings and Haven. It took Talia six days to travel from Sweetsprings to Kettlesmith (Arrows of the Queen, Chapter 2.) It should have taken days to get from the map location of Kettlesmith to Haven. (I *think* her total travel time was a week and a half, not sure of source.) Simplest resolution would be that she met Dirk a few days later.